Steve Sanchez gives us his view on psychic readings and their impact on our lives and thought processes. It is definitely worth reading - this article, that is.
The SRF way is to read someone as you would read yourself. You are told to look for "matching pictures". The meant to look for the faults in your "readee" you might see in yourself. That happened a lot. And what happened more was that the reader felt pretty good about him or herself because they knew the "readee" was at least a much as mess as they were.
The readings were a great way to project your own feelings of inadequacy onto another. You could demonize that person if you like or say whatever you wanted. No worries - all you had to do is see them as you and pass along all the crappy things people say about you on to the readee. Then that person walks away in a daze of confusion while you can be smug that you just dumped on another hapless victim.
Psychic readings can be quite harmful and the way we did them at SRF is probably the worst possible thing.
-----------------------------------------
I met with the good doc the other day and was reminded of something that I think is worth discussing on Mike’s blog: that is, psychic training as a spiritual practice. I think it is a faulted format for spirituality. I would like to hear what others think about this subject. I will mention a few things I have thought about.
In a psychic reading one person poses as the person with the answers, and the other passively receives these answers, a situation ripe for various abuse whether intended or not. It is much healthier for there to be a measure of reciprocation as there is in most counseling.
In counseling or therapy both people are exercising an internal skill in their own way. Coming to someone for answers in a psychic reading is imbalanced, even though some psychics try to say that they are not giving answers, but that is basically the nature of the situation.
People who have any tendencies toward dissociation, difficulty saying no, or thinking through things, are extremely vulnerable in this situation to manipulation. What the psychic tells them could be useful, or it could be harmful, there is little to no way of monitoring it.
The unique thing about a psychic reading is the nature of its claim to authority. The psychic is supposedly receiving information from the spiritual world that they themselves have no idea who the source is. At SRF we used to say a sort of prayer to the Supreme Being before doing the reading. This is positive in theory, but it didn’t really prevent abuse. We used to mostly read each where it was much safer, because we were all indoctrinated to the same ethos, that is, to not invalidate each other. At SRF it was a very ‘inbred’ situation.
Everyone knew each other extremely well, although actually I wouldn’t say we knew each other, rather we were extremely familiar with each other. There were many times when we would wait to read one another just so that we could tell a particular person off in the guise of a ‘reading’. Sounds kind of funny now but it was a colossal waste of time. We were told to not be in our personality, but that is where people mostly were.
Everyone there was angry, but not openly, it was disingenious. We were made to feel that we were in our personality if we were angry, when anger would have been the truest thing we could express. Everyone was sexually and emotionally repressed, because everyone was subject to Bill’s (and some other higher ups) way of seeing things. And Bill was supposedly an ‘ex-ray clairvoyant’, and the ultimate manipulator. Instead of calling SRF a New Age teaching you might do well to call it a new rage teaching.
All religions warn against the dangers of psychic pursuits. The bottom line reason why the psychic format is faulted is best expressed by Swedenborg. Swedenborg says that those who try to seek psychic perception from spirits in the spiritual world are not receiving what they hope to. They actually receiving and mixing with the emotions of spirits.
These spirits attach their emotion to a person and make it feel like what they are saying is very important, but it is really just the emotional agenda of a lower spirit. It is almost impossible to detect this happening. Opening oneself to it is foolishness. An angelic spirit would never do such a thing.
So clearly it is a messy business that sends a person down a road that it not really theirs, which is one of the worst feelings a person can have in their life. This pretty much defines the feeling of being in SRF, especially when musters up the courage to leave it. As Lisa Lochsted said, ‘we were pawns in Bill’s demented psychodrama’.
The biggest pawns are those that are left.
Friday, June 10, 2011
ISHI Hypnosis and the Cult of SRF - what happened after World Hypnotism Day?
[when you read this article, please remember to take a look at the comment left by, well, I wrote about that person in another article. I'm re-posting this so you can see the comment in its original context (such as it is).]
World Hypnotism Day.
A day for the world to embrace and celebrate the wonder of hypnosis. A day to discover hypnosis. A day to worship ISHI Hypnosis and join them in a day of hypnosis demonstrations and presentations of the ISHI Hypnosis hypnotist training program.
It's another fake holiday. Fake like "Buy Your Mate a Vacuum Cleaner She'll Just Smack You Up The Side of Your Head With Day".
What is World Hypnotism Day all about anyway?
Judging from the ISHI Hypnosis website, it's pretty much the usual thing you expect from hypnosis: stopping smoking, losing weight, keeping those New Year's Resolutions and so on. It also appears to be a way to introduce the ISHI Hypnosis training program. The same training program I took when I received my hypnotist certificate. That's the certificate I received despite not answering a lot of questions on the certification test - enough that it would have ensured failure.
[note: in their legal complaint against me, ISHI Hypnosis did NOT disagree that I was granted a certificate although I FAILED the test. In essence, since they did not say my statement is a lie, they are saying they think my statement is true.]
Anyway, a few years ago World Hypnotism Day was inaugurated and covered in a breezy morning news report on San Francisco's KRON TV. The main instructor was interviewed, the students of ISHI were interviewed and a schedule of events was broadcast. The reporter, crew and everyone on camera had a great time laughing and extolling the virtues of ISHI Hypnosis (ISHI Hypnosis being so much better than any other hypnosis, of course).
Once the segment was over, the crew went back to the station and everyone went on with their day.
There were a few people in the audience ISHI Hypnosis didn't count on, though. Those people were the ones who knew "The Secret".
No, not THAT Secret - the secret that ISHI Hypnosis doesn't want you to know. A secret uncovered by the same TV station just days later. A secret that puts the credibility of ISHI on the table.
The Secret: ISHI Hypnosis was born from the Spiritual Rights Foundation Cult (SRF) and that it conducts itself and organizes itself in the same manner as the Spiritual Rights Foundation. [ note: since this article was posted the first time, official county registration documents were found showing Spiritual Rights Foundation had registered ISHI Hypnosis as a fictitious business name. ISHI Hypnosis IS the Spiritual Rights Foundation in every legal sense.]
(click to enlarge)
The secret that the bishop of the Spiritual Rights Foundation conducts herself as the primary instructor at ISHI Hypnosis. The secret that she stood idly by as the founder of SRF used hypnosis to induce her children to hate their father. The secret that the leaders of the Spiritual Rights Foundation benefit financially from ISHI Hypnosis [note: ISHI Hypnosis is registered as a fictitious business name for the Spiritual Rights Foundation, therefore all ISHI income goes to SRF]. The secret that the members of SRF were led to attend classes at ISHI (at ISHI's regular price) to learn hypnosis for the purpose of perpetuating mind control conducted by the leaders.
Those individuals with "The Secret" contacted KRON TV after watching the ISHI Hypnosis segment in horror. They were able to speak with a news reporter giving them details on the relationship between SRF, at that time widely recognized as a cultic organization, and ISHI Hypnosis, at that time a new and little-known school of hypnosis.
KRON TV began a follow-up report. Eager to gain publicity, ISHI readily agreed to an on-camera interview.
The trap was set.
KRON arrived and began a light, breezy interview on ISHI Hypnosis and World Hypnotism Day. They beamed with pride as always.
Then, in an abrupt turn, the reporter produced the book "Spiritual Perversion" apparently out of nowhere, surprising them, and asked if they had heard of "Spiritual Perversion" and its author Steve Sanchez.
You'd think that being the psychic bishop of a psychic church, she would have seen it coming. Not her.
She sat there, wide-eyed with that deer-caught-in-the-headlights look. Frozen. Stunned.
Then from off-camera, a voice boomed "THIS INTERVIEW IS OVER!". And that was that.
At least on that day, that was that.
KRON aired the report a few days later. They began with imagery of Jim Jones, bodies in shrouds waiting for the UFO they wanted to board. It went on to interviews with ex-SRF members and cut in scenes from the first World Hypnotism Day. And, yes, there was the non-interview.
All the secrets of SRF were revealed. The abuse. The misuse of therapeutic hypnosis on children for the purpose of emotionally separating them from their father (a situation their mother proudly announced on the SRF radio show "Total Prosperity"). The use of false information to deliberately cause tension in otherwise happy spouses. Forced separation. Arranged relationships. The psychotic drive of the leaders to control all aspects of their member's lives. All told by former members who had experienced those things first hand.
Did I mention the non-interview?
Only one thing, though: Those events were not what Robin Dumolin and that off-camera voice represented to the members of SRF.
It was class night for the Clairvoyant Training Program. Robin was at the front of the familiar center room. It was a night where the beginning class and the advanced level classes were combined. They started with a little talk about psychic abilities. It moved on to grounding and what can cause one to lose that grounding. Then the talk moved to the news report.
The teacher explained that the KRON crew asked for an interview and she knew intuitively that they were up to no good. She never explained why she missed a golden opportunity to avoid a bad situation she saw coming a mile away.
The teacher went on to explain that in the middle of the interview, the reporter asked if she knew a man by the name of Steve Sanchez and did she know the contents of his book. The teacher went on to say that she chucked a bit then deftly and skillfully answered that Steve was just a publicity-seeking author and disgruntled former member with mental health issues concerning an unhealthy fixation on the founder of ISHI. She went on to explain that she was in the middle of setting the record straight when the booming voice ended the interview.
Robin continued to say that on the day of the KRON report's broadcast, they practiced "energy techniques" to disrupt the grounding cords of the reporter, anchor person, broadcast equipment, electric supply and probably the donuts in the green room. Robin proudly stated that their energy work was so effective in disrupting KRON and its on-air staff that the negative report on ISHI Hypnosis was aired a long time after it was scheduled - I believe it was claimed to be more than an hour. She then gave herself, the teacher and the booming voice much adulation and praise for having accomplished such an amazing feat.
Amazing but for one thing: none of them said that the report aired nearly on schedule despite the energy work. We were never told there was a delay in broadcasting due to a minor problem with some equipment delaying the report only a few minutes after its scheduled time, non-interview and all.
We never heard from them the teacher was caught flat-footed and speechless.
Apparently, their diligent efforts to stop the report were no more effective than sticking their tongues out in KRON's general direction.
Perhaps mooning KRON would have worked better.
If I were going to the World Hypnotism Day and if I were considering a training program from ISHI Hypnosis, I would wonder: knowing all that I have written today, would I want to engage in training from there? Would it be beneficial to be trained in hypnosis by a woman who sat idly by as her children were scooped up, placed in hypnosis and induced to reject their own father - a man who did nothing but provide love, care and guidance to them?
Would you feel comfortable knowing the head of the ISHI Hypnosis school made such a wildly exagggerated description of events her motives, her credibility appears (at the very least) questionable? Does their claim of triumph in the face of personal defeat seem like the kind of behavior you would find in a person you would trust?
Never mind if hypnosis works or not. Never mind if it is good, bad or otherwise. It's the quality of the organization. It's the veracity of the staff. It's the sense that the hearts of the staff are as good as yours.
You might want to ask about that after this year's World Hypnotism Day.
You might get the same answers KRON got.
But you'll more likely be told the same things we were told.
And this interview with that local news station was the last time the Spiritual Rights Foundation ever participated in any kind of media coverage. That was some four years ago.
I have to ask you, why is it an organization that feeds on new recruits, an organization who goes through people as quickly as a slaughterhouse goes through pigs can't manage the media like so many others do?
Why is it that the Spiritual Rights Foundation can't participate in public media as even Scientology does?
It's simple: first, they have too much dirty laundry and too little skill in presenting their message.
And they are too cheap to hire PR experts and marketing consultants to re-position their image.
Worse, they are just too detached from the world to make any kind of meaningful communication with it.
As always, after hearing my side of the SRF story, go ahead and find there side of the story and make up your own mind.
If you do find their side of the story, please tell it here. We've been waiting to hear it.
World Hypnotism Day.
A day for the world to embrace and celebrate the wonder of hypnosis. A day to discover hypnosis. A day to worship ISHI Hypnosis and join them in a day of hypnosis demonstrations and presentations of the ISHI Hypnosis hypnotist training program.
It's another fake holiday. Fake like "Buy Your Mate a Vacuum Cleaner She'll Just Smack You Up The Side of Your Head With Day".
What is World Hypnotism Day all about anyway?
Judging from the ISHI Hypnosis website, it's pretty much the usual thing you expect from hypnosis: stopping smoking, losing weight, keeping those New Year's Resolutions and so on. It also appears to be a way to introduce the ISHI Hypnosis training program. The same training program I took when I received my hypnotist certificate. That's the certificate I received despite not answering a lot of questions on the certification test - enough that it would have ensured failure.
[note: in their legal complaint against me, ISHI Hypnosis did NOT disagree that I was granted a certificate although I FAILED the test. In essence, since they did not say my statement is a lie, they are saying they think my statement is true.]
Anyway, a few years ago World Hypnotism Day was inaugurated and covered in a breezy morning news report on San Francisco's KRON TV. The main instructor was interviewed, the students of ISHI were interviewed and a schedule of events was broadcast. The reporter, crew and everyone on camera had a great time laughing and extolling the virtues of ISHI Hypnosis (ISHI Hypnosis being so much better than any other hypnosis, of course).
Once the segment was over, the crew went back to the station and everyone went on with their day.
There were a few people in the audience ISHI Hypnosis didn't count on, though. Those people were the ones who knew "The Secret".
No, not THAT Secret - the secret that ISHI Hypnosis doesn't want you to know. A secret uncovered by the same TV station just days later. A secret that puts the credibility of ISHI on the table.
The Secret: ISHI Hypnosis was born from the Spiritual Rights Foundation Cult (SRF) and that it conducts itself and organizes itself in the same manner as the Spiritual Rights Foundation. [ note: since this article was posted the first time, official county registration documents were found showing Spiritual Rights Foundation had registered ISHI Hypnosis as a fictitious business name. ISHI Hypnosis IS the Spiritual Rights Foundation in every legal sense.]
(click to enlarge)The secret that the bishop of the Spiritual Rights Foundation conducts herself as the primary instructor at ISHI Hypnosis. The secret that she stood idly by as the founder of SRF used hypnosis to induce her children to hate their father. The secret that the leaders of the Spiritual Rights Foundation benefit financially from ISHI Hypnosis [note: ISHI Hypnosis is registered as a fictitious business name for the Spiritual Rights Foundation, therefore all ISHI income goes to SRF]. The secret that the members of SRF were led to attend classes at ISHI (at ISHI's regular price) to learn hypnosis for the purpose of perpetuating mind control conducted by the leaders.
Those individuals with "The Secret" contacted KRON TV after watching the ISHI Hypnosis segment in horror. They were able to speak with a news reporter giving them details on the relationship between SRF, at that time widely recognized as a cultic organization, and ISHI Hypnosis, at that time a new and little-known school of hypnosis.
KRON TV began a follow-up report. Eager to gain publicity, ISHI readily agreed to an on-camera interview.
The trap was set.
KRON arrived and began a light, breezy interview on ISHI Hypnosis and World Hypnotism Day. They beamed with pride as always.
Then, in an abrupt turn, the reporter produced the book "Spiritual Perversion" apparently out of nowhere, surprising them, and asked if they had heard of "Spiritual Perversion" and its author Steve Sanchez.
You'd think that being the psychic bishop of a psychic church, she would have seen it coming. Not her.
She sat there, wide-eyed with that deer-caught-in-the-headlights look. Frozen. Stunned.
Then from off-camera, a voice boomed "THIS INTERVIEW IS OVER!". And that was that.
At least on that day, that was that.
KRON aired the report a few days later. They began with imagery of Jim Jones, bodies in shrouds waiting for the UFO they wanted to board. It went on to interviews with ex-SRF members and cut in scenes from the first World Hypnotism Day. And, yes, there was the non-interview.
All the secrets of SRF were revealed. The abuse. The misuse of therapeutic hypnosis on children for the purpose of emotionally separating them from their father (a situation their mother proudly announced on the SRF radio show "Total Prosperity"). The use of false information to deliberately cause tension in otherwise happy spouses. Forced separation. Arranged relationships. The psychotic drive of the leaders to control all aspects of their member's lives. All told by former members who had experienced those things first hand.
Did I mention the non-interview?
Only one thing, though: Those events were not what Robin Dumolin and that off-camera voice represented to the members of SRF.
It was class night for the Clairvoyant Training Program. Robin was at the front of the familiar center room. It was a night where the beginning class and the advanced level classes were combined. They started with a little talk about psychic abilities. It moved on to grounding and what can cause one to lose that grounding. Then the talk moved to the news report.
The teacher explained that the KRON crew asked for an interview and she knew intuitively that they were up to no good. She never explained why she missed a golden opportunity to avoid a bad situation she saw coming a mile away.
The teacher went on to explain that in the middle of the interview, the reporter asked if she knew a man by the name of Steve Sanchez and did she know the contents of his book. The teacher went on to say that she chucked a bit then deftly and skillfully answered that Steve was just a publicity-seeking author and disgruntled former member with mental health issues concerning an unhealthy fixation on the founder of ISHI. She went on to explain that she was in the middle of setting the record straight when the booming voice ended the interview.
Robin continued to say that on the day of the KRON report's broadcast, they practiced "energy techniques" to disrupt the grounding cords of the reporter, anchor person, broadcast equipment, electric supply and probably the donuts in the green room. Robin proudly stated that their energy work was so effective in disrupting KRON and its on-air staff that the negative report on ISHI Hypnosis was aired a long time after it was scheduled - I believe it was claimed to be more than an hour. She then gave herself, the teacher and the booming voice much adulation and praise for having accomplished such an amazing feat.
Amazing but for one thing: none of them said that the report aired nearly on schedule despite the energy work. We were never told there was a delay in broadcasting due to a minor problem with some equipment delaying the report only a few minutes after its scheduled time, non-interview and all.
We never heard from them the teacher was caught flat-footed and speechless.
Apparently, their diligent efforts to stop the report were no more effective than sticking their tongues out in KRON's general direction.
Perhaps mooning KRON would have worked better.
If I were going to the World Hypnotism Day and if I were considering a training program from ISHI Hypnosis, I would wonder: knowing all that I have written today, would I want to engage in training from there? Would it be beneficial to be trained in hypnosis by a woman who sat idly by as her children were scooped up, placed in hypnosis and induced to reject their own father - a man who did nothing but provide love, care and guidance to them?
Would you feel comfortable knowing the head of the ISHI Hypnosis school made such a wildly exagggerated description of events her motives, her credibility appears (at the very least) questionable? Does their claim of triumph in the face of personal defeat seem like the kind of behavior you would find in a person you would trust?
Never mind if hypnosis works or not. Never mind if it is good, bad or otherwise. It's the quality of the organization. It's the veracity of the staff. It's the sense that the hearts of the staff are as good as yours.
You might want to ask about that after this year's World Hypnotism Day.
You might get the same answers KRON got.
But you'll more likely be told the same things we were told.
And this interview with that local news station was the last time the Spiritual Rights Foundation ever participated in any kind of media coverage. That was some four years ago.
I have to ask you, why is it an organization that feeds on new recruits, an organization who goes through people as quickly as a slaughterhouse goes through pigs can't manage the media like so many others do?
Why is it that the Spiritual Rights Foundation can't participate in public media as even Scientology does?
It's simple: first, they have too much dirty laundry and too little skill in presenting their message.
And they are too cheap to hire PR experts and marketing consultants to re-position their image.
Worse, they are just too detached from the world to make any kind of meaningful communication with it.
As always, after hearing my side of the SRF story, go ahead and find there side of the story and make up your own mind.
If you do find their side of the story, please tell it here. We've been waiting to hear it.
Joy's Blog From The Road
OK, so I am a little remiss on my writing lately. Well, I have a few things on my mind. One was that vicious attack on Joy and the long discussion that followed after she wrote about seeing our friend Steve.
It wasn't that brief visit that sparked the long and passionate comments, it was actually some of the comments themselves. Those comments were made by Molly Rose and Kshanti - two adults.
Joy wrote about the concern she and others had for those two (and other children of SRF) and that she is glad things were working out for them despite the long hours working at night, working at the "SRF Farm" and being alienated from one or more of their parents.
Me, I thought they were two of the most naturally intelligent kids I ever saw. They are at their core good and admirable young women. I'm still concerned about what they went through. They seem somewhat ambivalent about their childhood now, even though they express so much anger and frustration towards us and assault our concerns about their childhood. It's pretty normal actually. Janya Lalich and Madeline Tobias say anger is one of the first things you experience when you start confronting the kind of experience we had at SRF. And as we have all seen, often times anger is displaced.
So we are the targets of their anger. That is fine with me. I wrote about how proud I feel that they are living great lives. I hope that hit them right where they live. They both know how much I cared about them. Maybe you did as well. Kshanti backed off and wished us well. Molly has at least shut the hell up and is finding other ways to express her frustration, I guess.
Ironically, while they call Joy's blog and her YouTube Videos "immature and whiny" their responses are anything but mature and objective. Besides, Joy was not only expressing her own outrage in a manner that was controlled and heartfelt, who expects a YouTube vlog to look like Anderson Cooper?
But what's the point of this post?
Hell, I'm not really sure.
To me, just as we got really, really pissed off when we realized what happened to us, our friends and family because of the abusive and exploitative behavior at SRF, I get the sense that those two may be realizing something themselves. Maybe they are also realizing what is happening to their mother and what happened to them. Maybe even their father (who suffered more than any man deserves).
But unlike us, they have strong emotional ties to a key member of SRF - a member who is the heir-apparent to the dysfunctional throne as well as to the others at the top of the trash heap. So if I am wrong about the whole thing, I would not be surprised. I still want to give them all the latitude I can. And because of their circumstances, I am quicker to forgive them than some others still there (and you probably know who I am talking about).
But what is happening to the SRF morass? It's pretty obvious they are not as strong as before, with sagging membership and less interest. They are currently holding some kind of Intuitive Arts Festival where you can get two readings and sleep through FIVE lectures for $30.
I don't know about you, but I can get a nice afternoon nap for a lot less than that.
Who knows if anyone will show up. Even if no one does, the membership will be browbeat to attend in force so Debi, Rick and whoever else can blather on and on about stuff that even the members are tired of hearing.
Even if people pack the house, where does the money go?
An anonymous commenter said in "God Doesn't Let The Left Hand Know What The Right Hand Is Doing" that there are two ledgers - one for the IRS, one for the leaders. Can you guess which might be the accurate one?
I'd love to hear from that person - even anonymously. Send me email or call. Post an anonymous comment, even. I don't name anyone who is anonymous (in fact one of the demands of the SRF lawsuit was they wanted us to name anyone who commented here - that is why we fought them so hard).
Was that information a rumor? Was it based on something he or she saw? Or maybe it was common knowledge among the inner circle. I'm not sure.
I am sure that if true, that behavior is something that you would expect from the Witches of Ellsworth (apart from their habit of personally destroying the soul and spirit of their victims). The only thing left to wonder is if they will be held accountable for that action in this life or the next. Or maybe both.
Regardless, take a look at the post that started the whole controversy. Right after this, we received the cease and desist letter from Attorney William Rogers (the cult mouthpiece) and later, a defamation lawsuit. Obviously we beat them back to the gates of hell where they belong giving them a humiliating defeat and validating all that is said here.
And we have shown that not only can we NOT be silenced, the truth prevails and the "free exercise clause" of the First Amendment doesn't insulate SRF from their own misdeeds nor does it prevent the public from hearing our side of the SRF story.
And do me a favor, click on those links in underlined text. You'll find they link to other articles you may not have seen before or may want to see again.
==========================================================
THURSDAY, JANUARY 15, 2009
It wasn't that brief visit that sparked the long and passionate comments, it was actually some of the comments themselves. Those comments were made by Molly Rose and Kshanti - two adults.
Joy wrote about the concern she and others had for those two (and other children of SRF) and that she is glad things were working out for them despite the long hours working at night, working at the "SRF Farm" and being alienated from one or more of their parents.
Me, I thought they were two of the most naturally intelligent kids I ever saw. They are at their core good and admirable young women. I'm still concerned about what they went through. They seem somewhat ambivalent about their childhood now, even though they express so much anger and frustration towards us and assault our concerns about their childhood. It's pretty normal actually. Janya Lalich and Madeline Tobias say anger is one of the first things you experience when you start confronting the kind of experience we had at SRF. And as we have all seen, often times anger is displaced.
So we are the targets of their anger. That is fine with me. I wrote about how proud I feel that they are living great lives. I hope that hit them right where they live. They both know how much I cared about them. Maybe you did as well. Kshanti backed off and wished us well. Molly has at least shut the hell up and is finding other ways to express her frustration, I guess.
Ironically, while they call Joy's blog and her YouTube Videos "immature and whiny" their responses are anything but mature and objective. Besides, Joy was not only expressing her own outrage in a manner that was controlled and heartfelt, who expects a YouTube vlog to look like Anderson Cooper?
But what's the point of this post?
Hell, I'm not really sure.
To me, just as we got really, really pissed off when we realized what happened to us, our friends and family because of the abusive and exploitative behavior at SRF, I get the sense that those two may be realizing something themselves. Maybe they are also realizing what is happening to their mother and what happened to them. Maybe even their father (who suffered more than any man deserves).
But unlike us, they have strong emotional ties to a key member of SRF - a member who is the heir-apparent to the dysfunctional throne as well as to the others at the top of the trash heap. So if I am wrong about the whole thing, I would not be surprised. I still want to give them all the latitude I can. And because of their circumstances, I am quicker to forgive them than some others still there (and you probably know who I am talking about).
But what is happening to the SRF morass? It's pretty obvious they are not as strong as before, with sagging membership and less interest. They are currently holding some kind of Intuitive Arts Festival where you can get two readings and sleep through FIVE lectures for $30.
I don't know about you, but I can get a nice afternoon nap for a lot less than that.
Who knows if anyone will show up. Even if no one does, the membership will be browbeat to attend in force so Debi, Rick and whoever else can blather on and on about stuff that even the members are tired of hearing.
Even if people pack the house, where does the money go?
An anonymous commenter said in "God Doesn't Let The Left Hand Know What The Right Hand Is Doing" that there are two ledgers - one for the IRS, one for the leaders. Can you guess which might be the accurate one?
I'd love to hear from that person - even anonymously. Send me email or call. Post an anonymous comment, even. I don't name anyone who is anonymous (in fact one of the demands of the SRF lawsuit was they wanted us to name anyone who commented here - that is why we fought them so hard).
Was that information a rumor? Was it based on something he or she saw? Or maybe it was common knowledge among the inner circle. I'm not sure.
I am sure that if true, that behavior is something that you would expect from the Witches of Ellsworth (apart from their habit of personally destroying the soul and spirit of their victims). The only thing left to wonder is if they will be held accountable for that action in this life or the next. Or maybe both.
Regardless, take a look at the post that started the whole controversy. Right after this, we received the cease and desist letter from Attorney William Rogers (the cult mouthpiece) and later, a defamation lawsuit. Obviously we beat them back to the gates of hell where they belong giving them a humiliating defeat and validating all that is said here.
And we have shown that not only can we NOT be silenced, the truth prevails and the "free exercise clause" of the First Amendment doesn't insulate SRF from their own misdeeds nor does it prevent the public from hearing our side of the SRF story.
And do me a favor, click on those links in underlined text. You'll find they link to other articles you may not have seen before or may want to see again.
==========================================================
THURSDAY, JANUARY 15, 2009
On the road still coming back from our visit with Steve Sanchez. We had a wonderful visit. It was absolutely warming to see him again after so many years. He was as I remembered him, friendly, corgile, active and earnest. It is amazing how he was able to pick himself up after all that had happened to him, remarry a wonderful woman and start a new family. An inspiration to us all.
We talked about many things, some of which I will not discuss right now. However I was able to to ask him some questions about his book. He described some of the process of writing it. He tried to place himself in the past and then write in present tense. Capturing his awareness and thoughts at the time was challenging but he felt gave the book an interesting perspective as he told his story.
He wrote his book as a way of reclaiming his experiences and embracingthat part of himself and his life. I appreciated this as this resonates with me as to why I am writing on my blog. To write and finally be able to expose the lies and suppression's of the leaders and members of the Spiritual Rights Foundation is a freeing and healing experience. It is hard for many people to understand why we do this, what compels us to put ourselves out there to face criticism and possible threats. It is because we are breaking the cycle of deceit, abuse and mind control. I went through 14 years of intense reprogramming at the Spiritual Rights Foundation and ISHIHypnosis. It is about time I speak up for me and the rest of the victims that have passed through the spiritual perversion that is Bill Duby, Angela Silva and Robin DuMolin.
We talked about many things, some of which I will not discuss right now. However I was able to to ask him some questions about his book. He described some of the process of writing it. He tried to place himself in the past and then write in present tense. Capturing his awareness and thoughts at the time was challenging but he felt gave the book an interesting perspective as he told his story.
He wrote his book as a way of reclaiming his experiences and embracingthat part of himself and his life. I appreciated this as this resonates with me as to why I am writing on my blog. To write and finally be able to expose the lies and suppression's of the leaders and members of the Spiritual Rights Foundation is a freeing and healing experience. It is hard for many people to understand why we do this, what compels us to put ourselves out there to face criticism and possible threats. It is because we are breaking the cycle of deceit, abuse and mind control. I went through 14 years of intense reprogramming at the Spiritual Rights Foundation and ISHIHypnosis. It is about time I speak up for me and the rest of the victims that have passed through the spiritual perversion that is Bill Duby, Angela Silva and Robin DuMolin.
Molly Rose Livingston said...
Hey Joy,
I saw you got married, and I heard it was a really beautiful ceremony.
I’m very happy for you two!
When two people fall in love and decide to spend their life together, it’s a really great thing. However, I was under the impression that a marriage is about growing with each other. Focusing on the future that you two are building together. It saddens me to see that your apparent form of bonding is to obsess over your past, and in the process hurt and try to discredit all the people you used to be closest to.
Seems to me it would be beneficial to focus more on your relationship, or ‘relationshit’ as some of your friends have called it. I hear it could use some help.
I guess that’s what can be expected, when a relationship spends so much time focusing on tearing other people down.
Karma is a bitch.
Anyways, I would really appreciate it if you kept my name, and my mom and sister’s name, out of your mouth.
Honestly, it’s just plain disrespectful. As the adult in this situation, you should know better.
It would seem you do know better. You say yourself that you “do not desire to hurt a particular person,” which is a lie if I ever saw it.
Your blogs disclaimer even says, “At no time is the intent of this blog to harm, ridicule or libel any organization or person living or deceased.”
So why is it that the majority of your blog is a desperate scramble to tear people down? Get a life.
You’re name-calling gets old pretty quick. So does seeing my mom be accused of forcing me and my sister into child labor, neglecting me, watching me be sexually molested and/or physically abused and all the other ridiculous bullshit your spewing out.
Furthermore, you have childishly dedicated an entire site to ruining my mom's reputation as a hypnotist. While I realize you must be disgruntled over something, this is the real world. You can’t just go attack someone because they upset you some how.
On a similar not, Bill is deceased.
I guess for someone so cowardly, it’s much more fun to insult, accuse, degrade and name call someone who has passed away. After all, they can’t fight back. I’ll that makes you feel really big and strong. Well it’s been 8 years since he died; you tired of soiling his name yet?
Have some respect for me, my family, friends, and your own dignity, and stop lying.
I was in no way abused, molested, brainwashed or forced into child labor.
I had a great childhood. I received a solid education, had a puppy, birds, fish, rode horses, went on road trips, out to movies, to Disneyland, camping, went snowboarding, took karate, swimming, gymnastics classes. . . Basically all the normal, fun kid thinks you seem to be so certain I missed out on, I had. So thanks for your concern but I was, and am, perfectly fine.
This little vendetta of yours is more nauseating then high school drama.
Yes I guess I should mention that even as a child of this so-called ‘evil, horrific, mind controlling, mini-empire of a cult’, I attended public high school.
I even somehow managed to graduate with honors, as president of the speech & debate club, winner of numerous awards, and editor of the yearbook. (When I had free time from all that back breaking forced child labor, of course) And now, as a sophomore in college, I am editor-in-chief of the college’s award-winning newspaper (still bringing home JACC and VFW awards, might I add,) and on the board of officers and historian for the schools largest club.
Three cheers for brainwashing, I guess?
I’m sure you’ll also be happy to hear that my older sister, who you refer to as being “lost in the world,” is also doing fantastic as a manager at a well-known resort.
In fact, all of the children that you said had been brainwashed, abused, neglected and/or not allowed a proper education are doing just as well. Whether they are in college, owning their own businesses or traveling. They are all thriving.
Joy, your blog’s and video casts come off as immature and whiny.
I’ll admit I have only scanned through a few of them. They’re dull, and the videos are laden with enough “Umms” to make me want knock myself over the head. Maybe they do get a little more interesting. I don’t have the time or desire to find out.
Is it really necessary to spend so much of your time in front of a video camera obsessing over how broken and wounded you feel you are, and reading Steve’s book out loud?
I think Steve can handle his own advertising. In fact, as a courtesy to him you should probably refrain from helping. I’m not sure your whiny and sloppy (even comedic, though I realize that’s unintentional on your part.) PR is helping his book sales.
And after seeing one video where you cut and pasted little dolls together of my mom, dad and godfather, to ‘act out’ scenes from Steve’s book I’m really starting to question your mental stability. I’m honestly saddened by how ridiculous you’re acting.
I think its time for you to stop spending so much time with your computer and reading into a camera. (I mean, come one, you chimed in the new year with your video camera.)
I realize that’s the only thing you can probably get to sit still long enough to listen to your whining, but still you might find that the outside world can be interesting, too.
Anything is going to be more interesting then playing with paper dolls for some weird desperate youtube puppet show.
With hopes that you soon grow up and get on with your life,
Molly Rose Livingston
I saw you got married, and I heard it was a really beautiful ceremony.
I’m very happy for you two!
When two people fall in love and decide to spend their life together, it’s a really great thing. However, I was under the impression that a marriage is about growing with each other. Focusing on the future that you two are building together. It saddens me to see that your apparent form of bonding is to obsess over your past, and in the process hurt and try to discredit all the people you used to be closest to.
Seems to me it would be beneficial to focus more on your relationship, or ‘relationshit’ as some of your friends have called it. I hear it could use some help.
I guess that’s what can be expected, when a relationship spends so much time focusing on tearing other people down.
Karma is a bitch.
Anyways, I would really appreciate it if you kept my name, and my mom and sister’s name, out of your mouth.
Honestly, it’s just plain disrespectful. As the adult in this situation, you should know better.
It would seem you do know better. You say yourself that you “do not desire to hurt a particular person,” which is a lie if I ever saw it.
Your blogs disclaimer even says, “At no time is the intent of this blog to harm, ridicule or libel any organization or person living or deceased.”
So why is it that the majority of your blog is a desperate scramble to tear people down? Get a life.
You’re name-calling gets old pretty quick. So does seeing my mom be accused of forcing me and my sister into child labor, neglecting me, watching me be sexually molested and/or physically abused and all the other ridiculous bullshit your spewing out.
Furthermore, you have childishly dedicated an entire site to ruining my mom's reputation as a hypnotist. While I realize you must be disgruntled over something, this is the real world. You can’t just go attack someone because they upset you some how.
On a similar not, Bill is deceased.
I guess for someone so cowardly, it’s much more fun to insult, accuse, degrade and name call someone who has passed away. After all, they can’t fight back. I’ll that makes you feel really big and strong. Well it’s been 8 years since he died; you tired of soiling his name yet?
Have some respect for me, my family, friends, and your own dignity, and stop lying.
I was in no way abused, molested, brainwashed or forced into child labor.
I had a great childhood. I received a solid education, had a puppy, birds, fish, rode horses, went on road trips, out to movies, to Disneyland, camping, went snowboarding, took karate, swimming, gymnastics classes. . . Basically all the normal, fun kid thinks you seem to be so certain I missed out on, I had. So thanks for your concern but I was, and am, perfectly fine.
This little vendetta of yours is more nauseating then high school drama.
Yes I guess I should mention that even as a child of this so-called ‘evil, horrific, mind controlling, mini-empire of a cult’, I attended public high school.
I even somehow managed to graduate with honors, as president of the speech & debate club, winner of numerous awards, and editor of the yearbook. (When I had free time from all that back breaking forced child labor, of course) And now, as a sophomore in college, I am editor-in-chief of the college’s award-winning newspaper (still bringing home JACC and VFW awards, might I add,) and on the board of officers and historian for the schools largest club.
Three cheers for brainwashing, I guess?
I’m sure you’ll also be happy to hear that my older sister, who you refer to as being “lost in the world,” is also doing fantastic as a manager at a well-known resort.
In fact, all of the children that you said had been brainwashed, abused, neglected and/or not allowed a proper education are doing just as well. Whether they are in college, owning their own businesses or traveling. They are all thriving.
Joy, your blog’s and video casts come off as immature and whiny.
I’ll admit I have only scanned through a few of them. They’re dull, and the videos are laden with enough “Umms” to make me want knock myself over the head. Maybe they do get a little more interesting. I don’t have the time or desire to find out.
Is it really necessary to spend so much of your time in front of a video camera obsessing over how broken and wounded you feel you are, and reading Steve’s book out loud?
I think Steve can handle his own advertising. In fact, as a courtesy to him you should probably refrain from helping. I’m not sure your whiny and sloppy (even comedic, though I realize that’s unintentional on your part.) PR is helping his book sales.
And after seeing one video where you cut and pasted little dolls together of my mom, dad and godfather, to ‘act out’ scenes from Steve’s book I’m really starting to question your mental stability. I’m honestly saddened by how ridiculous you’re acting.
I think its time for you to stop spending so much time with your computer and reading into a camera. (I mean, come one, you chimed in the new year with your video camera.)
I realize that’s the only thing you can probably get to sit still long enough to listen to your whining, but still you might find that the outside world can be interesting, too.
Anything is going to be more interesting then playing with paper dolls for some weird desperate youtube puppet show.
With hopes that you soon grow up and get on with your life,
Molly Rose Livingston
Wow. You know, I had hope that all this talk about "the blogs" was a bunch of hype... Just something that was "fabricated" by the "Cult members" as a way to make it seem like everyone really was against them.. Because that's what it's about, right? All you Reformed Ex Members, banning together in name of a just cause. All of you who were so wrongly abused and mistreated... Now you blog to get over it... Guess what, every time you take time out of your day (and from the looks of it, you take quite a bit of time out. Must be nice to have that much to spare) you're only re-energizing your, clearly, fucked up past... But, oh shit. There i go, regurgitating all the stuff that I've been brainwashed to believe... Maybe it's true, maybe not.. I guess the "real world" will have to be the judge of that.
What have you done with your life since freeing yourself of all those spiritual, mind-washing Bastards? You're clearly working on your public speaking skills- good for you. When you're preaching on the steps of the Washington Monument and really making a difference, I'll be sure to think "damn, guess i guessed that one wrong"...
Aside from all your Blogging, what else do you really have that's so great? From what I've heard, Happily Ever After isn't all it's cracked up to be... but then, how can it be when the common bond is that you both seem to love talking smack about people and things that are beyond your comprehension...
As for the people you've chosen to try to "bring down"... For all the talk you've done about the so called abuse of children at the Cult... Way to bring them into it. You'd think that someone so concerned with the well being of young and innocent children would be a little more thoughtful before saying some of the things you have. But, who am i to say. I don't know anything. I've been brain washed all my life to only think and do what the cult says i can... Oh wait- except for that time that at my first "real job" i was promoted to supervisor and in charge of a staff of 45, at the age of 18... Then, the next season, promoted again to Asst Manager. In charge of not only the staff, running the floor, a front line desk with 7+ different cash outs on a daily basis, and all the training for the dept... Oh, then after doing that for a while- I jumped ship. Became the Asst. in a dept where i was in charge of Payroll for 437 people, not to mention running my own dept, people and front desk. I run the cash outs for over $80K in transactions a day... but that's prob nothing.. I mean, what can i really do with my "less than adequate education" and brainwashed upbringing?
I mean, yeah, I've heard the rumors about Home schooled kids. But it wasn't until I was out in the world and with "real people" that i really understood it. When people would find out that i was home schooled the reaction was always- "what!? No way, you're normal and social. I thought Home schooled kids were weird."...
But who knows... That's just my humble opinion. I'm out here working, and making a living for myself, and by myself. I've taken everything I've learned growing up all those years, and applied it. When it really comes down to it, you know what i use most in life? All the practical application and knowledge that i gained growing up the way i did. Shit- from the way you make it sound, it's even amazing i know how to spell my name. But yet, here I am.
As for my sister, Mother, Godmother, God sister, and everyone else in my family you've decided to bash... Get a life. Seriously. Get a life that's you're own. Stop wasting your time on them and really move on for once. The way you're acting now, I'm ashamed to say we were ever friends. My friends don't try to make themselves feel better at the expense of others.
Feel free to respond. I'd love to hear it.
I'm not trying to hide.
Kshanti Livingston.
soccersice25@yahoo.com
What have you done with your life since freeing yourself of all those spiritual, mind-washing Bastards? You're clearly working on your public speaking skills- good for you. When you're preaching on the steps of the Washington Monument and really making a difference, I'll be sure to think "damn, guess i guessed that one wrong"...
Aside from all your Blogging, what else do you really have that's so great? From what I've heard, Happily Ever After isn't all it's cracked up to be... but then, how can it be when the common bond is that you both seem to love talking smack about people and things that are beyond your comprehension...
As for the people you've chosen to try to "bring down"... For all the talk you've done about the so called abuse of children at the Cult... Way to bring them into it. You'd think that someone so concerned with the well being of young and innocent children would be a little more thoughtful before saying some of the things you have. But, who am i to say. I don't know anything. I've been brain washed all my life to only think and do what the cult says i can... Oh wait- except for that time that at my first "real job" i was promoted to supervisor and in charge of a staff of 45, at the age of 18... Then, the next season, promoted again to Asst Manager. In charge of not only the staff, running the floor, a front line desk with 7+ different cash outs on a daily basis, and all the training for the dept... Oh, then after doing that for a while- I jumped ship. Became the Asst. in a dept where i was in charge of Payroll for 437 people, not to mention running my own dept, people and front desk. I run the cash outs for over $80K in transactions a day... but that's prob nothing.. I mean, what can i really do with my "less than adequate education" and brainwashed upbringing?
I mean, yeah, I've heard the rumors about Home schooled kids. But it wasn't until I was out in the world and with "real people" that i really understood it. When people would find out that i was home schooled the reaction was always- "what!? No way, you're normal and social. I thought Home schooled kids were weird."...
But who knows... That's just my humble opinion. I'm out here working, and making a living for myself, and by myself. I've taken everything I've learned growing up all those years, and applied it. When it really comes down to it, you know what i use most in life? All the practical application and knowledge that i gained growing up the way i did. Shit- from the way you make it sound, it's even amazing i know how to spell my name. But yet, here I am.
As for my sister, Mother, Godmother, God sister, and everyone else in my family you've decided to bash... Get a life. Seriously. Get a life that's you're own. Stop wasting your time on them and really move on for once. The way you're acting now, I'm ashamed to say we were ever friends. My friends don't try to make themselves feel better at the expense of others.
Feel free to respond. I'd love to hear it.
I'm not trying to hide.
Kshanti Livingston.
soccersice25@yahoo.com
Anonymous said...
Wow, from the outside looking in this seems to be like someone is mad. These two Livinston bitches really know how to throw dirt.
Did Joy hit the nail on the head? I guess you just don't know how to spell DENIAL!!!!!
Yeah, one big happy family over there at SRF! All nice and rosy, perfect people! Loving, happy, perfect .
AH BULL FUCKING CRAP! YOU GIRLS ARE SPEWING MORE SHIT OUT OF YOUR MOUTHS THAN YOUR OWN ASSHOLES!
But what else comes from being around Duby who did spew such shit out of his mouth moreso than his asshole!
Duby was a fucked up SOB and fucked over a lot of decent folk like Joy and her husband.
Joy is growing up and like any adult who was abused is speaking out about it! She has more balls than either Kshanti or Molly Rose. She is calling the shit for what it is and how bad it stinks!
Oh wait a minute, thats not shit, thats spiritual enlightenment and truth.
Like other great Gurus who lie, cheat, steal, molest, sexually abuse, rape and do so many other things all in the name of "god" or religion. They pull more crap out of there asses than a magician pulls rabits out of their hats in a year!
You girls are really the fucked up ones here. Stop your projections and grow up yourselves.
Oh theres no elephant in the room, its all perfect here!
If you girls were stone cold drunk, I wouldn't even want to take advantage of you. Wouldn't want to soil myself on such piece of trash. I might catch something.
Yeah right you are so perfect and innocent.
If you were really Godly women, you would not be casting stones like this.
Did Joy hit the nail on the head? I guess you just don't know how to spell DENIAL!!!!!
Yeah, one big happy family over there at SRF! All nice and rosy, perfect people! Loving, happy, perfect .
AH BULL FUCKING CRAP! YOU GIRLS ARE SPEWING MORE SHIT OUT OF YOUR MOUTHS THAN YOUR OWN ASSHOLES!
But what else comes from being around Duby who did spew such shit out of his mouth moreso than his asshole!
Duby was a fucked up SOB and fucked over a lot of decent folk like Joy and her husband.
Joy is growing up and like any adult who was abused is speaking out about it! She has more balls than either Kshanti or Molly Rose. She is calling the shit for what it is and how bad it stinks!
Oh wait a minute, thats not shit, thats spiritual enlightenment and truth.
Like other great Gurus who lie, cheat, steal, molest, sexually abuse, rape and do so many other things all in the name of "god" or religion. They pull more crap out of there asses than a magician pulls rabits out of their hats in a year!
You girls are really the fucked up ones here. Stop your projections and grow up yourselves.
Oh theres no elephant in the room, its all perfect here!
If you girls were stone cold drunk, I wouldn't even want to take advantage of you. Wouldn't want to soil myself on such piece of trash. I might catch something.
Yeah right you are so perfect and innocent.
If you were really Godly women, you would not be casting stones like this.
Anonymous said...
Recently, a minister named Rev. Debi Livingston declared on the church's weekly radio program that her two daughters had made a ``total psychological separation from their dad.''
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2000/09/12/MNC1070.DTL&hw=spiritual+rights+foundation&sn=002&sc=753
Yeah you girls are one to talk! This from your mother! Oh, really good and really nice! Really perfect family!
No dysfunction here!
Just one big happy family with puppies, 20 (or was that 40 hour) of home schooling with no social sciences other things!
Just one big plastic family.
LETS TURN UP THE HEAT AND SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES TO MELT THESE BARBIE DOLLS!
But if academics took a back seat at the Spiritual Rights Foundation, ``trancing'' did not. Its relaxed, hypnotic state was the church's antidote to worldly programming. Children learned the practice early.
Kshanti signed this testimonial on the church's Web site:
``The other day Claire, Nick, Jenny and I were trancing. Man, oh, man, it was fun! I love trancing with the kids. It is especially fun when adults trance with us, because you get to see a side of them you wouldn't see normally. The kids get to trance every day, and what I really like about trance is that you can release other people's energy and be playing at the same time. What a concept!''
Yeah reall pretty picture this makes!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2000/09/12/MNC1070.DTL&hw=spiritual+rights+foundation&sn=002&sc=753
Yeah you girls are one to talk! This from your mother! Oh, really good and really nice! Really perfect family!
No dysfunction here!
Just one big happy family with puppies, 20 (or was that 40 hour) of home schooling with no social sciences other things!
Just one big plastic family.
LETS TURN UP THE HEAT AND SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES TO MELT THESE BARBIE DOLLS!
But if academics took a back seat at the Spiritual Rights Foundation, ``trancing'' did not. Its relaxed, hypnotic state was the church's antidote to worldly programming. Children learned the practice early.
Kshanti signed this testimonial on the church's Web site:
``The other day Claire, Nick, Jenny and I were trancing. Man, oh, man, it was fun! I love trancing with the kids. It is especially fun when adults trance with us, because you get to see a side of them you wouldn't see normally. The kids get to trance every day, and what I really like about trance is that you can release other people's energy and be playing at the same time. What a concept!''
Yeah reall pretty picture this makes!
Anonymous said...
Pretty interesting comments I´ve witnessed here. All strong and each has a message in there own right. I believe after witnessing things first hand there for years and the subsequent departure of members afterwards that I can honestly say there is much truth on both sides of this blog. But hey, thats what makes blogging so great!
I knew Ksanti and Molly and consider them to be your average kids growing up, and they went through all the pitfalls that anyone grows up with and in. The only difference is, there mom and dad had a fractured relationship like the millions or billions that sprout each and everyday. Debi´s kids were manipulated with the help of R. Bill, Angela and Robin. Debi just happened to love R. Bill so much, that she choose to follow her heart and in some respect, a coerced heart, as she herself was hoping so much to be doing the right thing, that she had mixed results.
The results were, the father of Debi´s kids was agitated into following a manipulator in power. He had control over all of us, and please members still there at the church don´t tell me otherwise. The father, Harpreet, had his faults as well as all men and woman that have children. He was bitter because he was trying to do what he thought was best for Debi and there kids. Unfortunately, what you would do in just routine daily decisions were called into question by Debi to R. Bill..and all the staff members. Nothing like bringing out your dirty laundry for everyone to have to make a snap decision about, even though none of us really wanted to hear about it.
The only problem was, we were subject to the same scrutiny as Debi and her ex mate Harpreet. Most of us were pushed into making these decisions because R. Bill would keep us up for sometimes days on end to no avail. He was a very huge control freak, fractured relationships in his own life that he would try to smooth over around others. He would scream at R. Angela and Robin behind the scenes and they would be subserviant to him while in the public view. He also R. Debi a new asshole many times, and she would cry and become so emotional that she turned on Harpreet and the relationship became dead. R. Debi bonded to R. Bill because she was in love with the man. He built her up and took lots of time with her, more so than Harpreet could ever come near the relationship that they had. R. Debi got built back up like the drill sargent tears down the boys and building up the man who goes out to become a warrior. R. Debi is a spiritual warrior, and has a gentler bedside manner now than what she was subjected to while in constant training.
R. Bill stole the time that should have been given to Harpreet with Kshanti and Molly, After the formative years were taken away from Harpreet by Bill, Debi was forced into having to give time to Harpreet by the courts. By then, the dye had been cast and Harpreet only had two angry and resentful daughters who were spoon fed the lie that there father was some kind of monster from India with hurtful intentions. They didn´t want anything to do with him and all the peer pressure that everyone succumbs to while there showed in how they viewed there father.
Funny thing is, when your in that enviornment, you are subsurviant, afterall thats what you paid for while doing the training. Once you leave, there is a withdrawl you go through and you feel a little bit lost. This reminds me of the movie Shawshank Redemption, where Morgan Freeman´s character declares after James Whitmore´s character is released into the world after so many years in prison and commits suicide. These walls do funny things to you, at first you hate them, then after you´ve been instutionalized for all those years, it makes a person crazy, and you come to love these walls and dependent on them. In a way, thats how it is once you leave SRF, your bearings were always controlled, then you fresh perspective of the world changes and you are either to scared to live in it, and run back to it for whatever reason, or you grow a new pair of balls or tits you become the person you knew before and scares you to see why you would give up your life for such lies and deception in the first place. It was like a narcotic adddict who finally kicks the habit and realizes all the time they wasted in there lives doing them. Just replace SRF for the drug or drugs of your choice...NO DIFFERENCE!
Lastly, Ksanti and Molly are not children, as well as most of the remaining kids in the church. They are all valuable members of society that have become adults.
Molly just happens to want to stick up for her sister and mother like anyone would. Molly and Kshantil doesn´t see her mom as this evil creature, because they have been loved by her. Ask them what they think of there father, and you will probably get a different and more aloof comments. They care about him but don´t really have a connection with him, you can put the blame on R. Bill and Debi for that....and with a big heapping helping from Harpreet.
I knew Ksanti and Molly and consider them to be your average kids growing up, and they went through all the pitfalls that anyone grows up with and in. The only difference is, there mom and dad had a fractured relationship like the millions or billions that sprout each and everyday. Debi´s kids were manipulated with the help of R. Bill, Angela and Robin. Debi just happened to love R. Bill so much, that she choose to follow her heart and in some respect, a coerced heart, as she herself was hoping so much to be doing the right thing, that she had mixed results.
The results were, the father of Debi´s kids was agitated into following a manipulator in power. He had control over all of us, and please members still there at the church don´t tell me otherwise. The father, Harpreet, had his faults as well as all men and woman that have children. He was bitter because he was trying to do what he thought was best for Debi and there kids. Unfortunately, what you would do in just routine daily decisions were called into question by Debi to R. Bill..and all the staff members. Nothing like bringing out your dirty laundry for everyone to have to make a snap decision about, even though none of us really wanted to hear about it.
The only problem was, we were subject to the same scrutiny as Debi and her ex mate Harpreet. Most of us were pushed into making these decisions because R. Bill would keep us up for sometimes days on end to no avail. He was a very huge control freak, fractured relationships in his own life that he would try to smooth over around others. He would scream at R. Angela and Robin behind the scenes and they would be subserviant to him while in the public view. He also R. Debi a new asshole many times, and she would cry and become so emotional that she turned on Harpreet and the relationship became dead. R. Debi bonded to R. Bill because she was in love with the man. He built her up and took lots of time with her, more so than Harpreet could ever come near the relationship that they had. R. Debi got built back up like the drill sargent tears down the boys and building up the man who goes out to become a warrior. R. Debi is a spiritual warrior, and has a gentler bedside manner now than what she was subjected to while in constant training.
R. Bill stole the time that should have been given to Harpreet with Kshanti and Molly, After the formative years were taken away from Harpreet by Bill, Debi was forced into having to give time to Harpreet by the courts. By then, the dye had been cast and Harpreet only had two angry and resentful daughters who were spoon fed the lie that there father was some kind of monster from India with hurtful intentions. They didn´t want anything to do with him and all the peer pressure that everyone succumbs to while there showed in how they viewed there father.
Funny thing is, when your in that enviornment, you are subsurviant, afterall thats what you paid for while doing the training. Once you leave, there is a withdrawl you go through and you feel a little bit lost. This reminds me of the movie Shawshank Redemption, where Morgan Freeman´s character declares after James Whitmore´s character is released into the world after so many years in prison and commits suicide. These walls do funny things to you, at first you hate them, then after you´ve been instutionalized for all those years, it makes a person crazy, and you come to love these walls and dependent on them. In a way, thats how it is once you leave SRF, your bearings were always controlled, then you fresh perspective of the world changes and you are either to scared to live in it, and run back to it for whatever reason, or you grow a new pair of balls or tits you become the person you knew before and scares you to see why you would give up your life for such lies and deception in the first place. It was like a narcotic adddict who finally kicks the habit and realizes all the time they wasted in there lives doing them. Just replace SRF for the drug or drugs of your choice...NO DIFFERENCE!
Lastly, Ksanti and Molly are not children, as well as most of the remaining kids in the church. They are all valuable members of society that have become adults.
Molly just happens to want to stick up for her sister and mother like anyone would. Molly and Kshantil doesn´t see her mom as this evil creature, because they have been loved by her. Ask them what they think of there father, and you will probably get a different and more aloof comments. They care about him but don´t really have a connection with him, you can put the blame on R. Bill and Debi for that....and with a big heapping helping from Harpreet.
"It takes a village to raise a child."
We heard that at SRF almost every day and we took it to heart.
Kshanti, Molly, I saw you both as two of the most naturally intelligent kids I have ever seen.
Paradoxically, the home schooling you were given held you back until your dad took a stand to help you two get to where you are today - two talented young women with bright futures.
Our fear was that you could not be as you have become. By integrating you both into the world you now enjoy, your dad helped you in more ways than you can imagine and in more ways than we can express.
Kshanti, it took relocation to Vermont for you to find your true calling and for you to develop into the young woman we knew you could become. And you have become the talented young woman YOU wanted to be. If that opportunity were available in Berkeley, why leave?
You knew there was more to life than copying tapes and driving tractors. You went for it and you got it.
That's what we wanted for you. And we never said you couldn't get it.
You are confusing our past fears for your future with our current pride for your present. To even think Joy, me or anyone else have ever been ashamed of you and Molly, to believe we think of you as anything less than bright young women with brilliant futures is absolutely wrong.
The village that raised you not only helped you two get to where you are now as adult women, but oddly, served as a roadblock to you both. Two brilliant girls with superior intellegence being taught below their abilities was painful for us to witness. And there were more people concered about that than you would believe.
The problem was there was nothing anyone but your father could do to help you. No one wanted to speak out for fear of punishment and no one wanted to risk alienating or traumatizing either of you with the news you two appear eager to read, now that you are adults.
When your father put you two on the road to your own success, Bill and others conspired to discredit him, demonize him and estrange him from the village where you were born and ultimately, from you.
Despite all that, we knew that of all of those SRF kids, you two would be the ones to have the best lives of anyone we know. If your lives seem great now, just wait. In ten years we know your stars will shine even brighter.
Give yourselves a well-deserved pat on the back.
But do me a favor: send your dad a card this Father's Day.
He loves you both enough to have set you free and took the bullets in the back so you can have the lives you enjoy now and the beautiful futures we all know you'll have. That is a father's biggest sacrifice.
I think he has earned a Hallmark.
We heard that at SRF almost every day and we took it to heart.
Kshanti, Molly, I saw you both as two of the most naturally intelligent kids I have ever seen.
Paradoxically, the home schooling you were given held you back until your dad took a stand to help you two get to where you are today - two talented young women with bright futures.
Our fear was that you could not be as you have become. By integrating you both into the world you now enjoy, your dad helped you in more ways than you can imagine and in more ways than we can express.
Kshanti, it took relocation to Vermont for you to find your true calling and for you to develop into the young woman we knew you could become. And you have become the talented young woman YOU wanted to be. If that opportunity were available in Berkeley, why leave?
You knew there was more to life than copying tapes and driving tractors. You went for it and you got it.
That's what we wanted for you. And we never said you couldn't get it.
You are confusing our past fears for your future with our current pride for your present. To even think Joy, me or anyone else have ever been ashamed of you and Molly, to believe we think of you as anything less than bright young women with brilliant futures is absolutely wrong.
The village that raised you not only helped you two get to where you are now as adult women, but oddly, served as a roadblock to you both. Two brilliant girls with superior intellegence being taught below their abilities was painful for us to witness. And there were more people concered about that than you would believe.
The problem was there was nothing anyone but your father could do to help you. No one wanted to speak out for fear of punishment and no one wanted to risk alienating or traumatizing either of you with the news you two appear eager to read, now that you are adults.
When your father put you two on the road to your own success, Bill and others conspired to discredit him, demonize him and estrange him from the village where you were born and ultimately, from you.
Despite all that, we knew that of all of those SRF kids, you two would be the ones to have the best lives of anyone we know. If your lives seem great now, just wait. In ten years we know your stars will shine even brighter.
Give yourselves a well-deserved pat on the back.
But do me a favor: send your dad a card this Father's Day.
He loves you both enough to have set you free and took the bullets in the back so you can have the lives you enjoy now and the beautiful futures we all know you'll have. That is a father's biggest sacrifice.
I think he has earned a Hallmark.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
The writings of Rosebud Maid are those of a very unstable individual. He should be feared for what he might do. Anyone who speaks like this is directly threatening someone else. It is one thing to throw vitrolic responses, it is another to threaten. If the identity of this individual is know to Mike or Joy, I hope that they take this as a gut and reality check.
Many people have been hurt by Bill Duby, the media supports this. Steve Sanchez's book support this. Former members suppor this.
Now Joy and Mike support this.
If even part of these stories are true, then everone was facing a truly sociopathic man. The things I am reading in Spiritual Perversion are quite shocking and despite the embelishments are actually based on fact.
Facts of pure psychological abuse. In any other contexts these things Bill said and did would put him behind bars. At SRF it was "spiritual" truths.
I was not in SRF, but I came from the organization which taught him all the lies he spewed and used to control people. The Church of Divine Man/Berkelely Psychic Institute.
CDM/BPI are not much different than SRF. Truly abominable leaders who abused their staff, parishoners and students. They did it more covertly than Bill and kept up appearances. But the stories are highly similar regarding the abuses one faced.
The difference between SRF & CDM is the difference between a Sociopath and a Narcissist. SRF was run by a sociopath, CDM by Naricissits.
Although I can hear both Molly and Kshanti's anger, they are going at the messenger, not debating the message. Their anger is truly misdirected as is often the case of those who have been around abuse or they themselves were abused. They make value judgements and attack character without even attempting to see her side of the situaion. I can see where they want to protect the image of what they thought was. But sometimes the image of what one believes does not stand up to the face of reality.
Molly, Kshanti put asside your feelings for a moment and try and step into Joy and Mikes shoes. They have and are going through a time of having to reconcile what they experienced and what they were told they were experiencing. It may hurt right now, but it takes a huge person to step up and call abuse for what it truly was.
Joy and Mike are doing just that.
I support Joy and Mike in naming the evils which they were exposed to. And it is good to see that they are holding you in a loving way. Your vitrol is understandable.
As Mike said, send your father a card on fathers day, he was manipulated and hurt by Bill as well. He fought for you. He was not perfect, but his actions speak mountains about his caring for you.
Joy has appologized if her blogs have hurt someone. It is not her intention to directly hurt anyone. She is just learning to truly speak up, and it takes courage to do so even in the face of insurmountable obstacles. And she is expressing her hurt in constructive and truly enlightening ways without.
Many people have been hurt by Bill Duby, the media supports this. Steve Sanchez's book support this. Former members suppor this.
Now Joy and Mike support this.
If even part of these stories are true, then everone was facing a truly sociopathic man. The things I am reading in Spiritual Perversion are quite shocking and despite the embelishments are actually based on fact.
Facts of pure psychological abuse. In any other contexts these things Bill said and did would put him behind bars. At SRF it was "spiritual" truths.
I was not in SRF, but I came from the organization which taught him all the lies he spewed and used to control people. The Church of Divine Man/Berkelely Psychic Institute.
CDM/BPI are not much different than SRF. Truly abominable leaders who abused their staff, parishoners and students. They did it more covertly than Bill and kept up appearances. But the stories are highly similar regarding the abuses one faced.
The difference between SRF & CDM is the difference between a Sociopath and a Narcissist. SRF was run by a sociopath, CDM by Naricissits.
Although I can hear both Molly and Kshanti's anger, they are going at the messenger, not debating the message. Their anger is truly misdirected as is often the case of those who have been around abuse or they themselves were abused. They make value judgements and attack character without even attempting to see her side of the situaion. I can see where they want to protect the image of what they thought was. But sometimes the image of what one believes does not stand up to the face of reality.
Molly, Kshanti put asside your feelings for a moment and try and step into Joy and Mikes shoes. They have and are going through a time of having to reconcile what they experienced and what they were told they were experiencing. It may hurt right now, but it takes a huge person to step up and call abuse for what it truly was.
Joy and Mike are doing just that.
I support Joy and Mike in naming the evils which they were exposed to. And it is good to see that they are holding you in a loving way. Your vitrol is understandable.
As Mike said, send your father a card on fathers day, he was manipulated and hurt by Bill as well. He fought for you. He was not perfect, but his actions speak mountains about his caring for you.
Joy has appologized if her blogs have hurt someone. It is not her intention to directly hurt anyone. She is just learning to truly speak up, and it takes courage to do so even in the face of insurmountable obstacles. And she is expressing her hurt in constructive and truly enlightening ways without.
In re: Rosebud Maid...
WTF?
I remember being on Spirit Patrol late at night reading the incoming email. We seemed to get one or two of those kinds of crazy mails every night from similar SRF "supporters". If I were alone whern I read them, I'd need clean underwear. Luckily, the lights were on and there were a few others around.
Once in a while, someone like that would call on the main phone line. Just as creepy. Those kinds of email and phone calls were just one of the reasons SRF HQ has a tall steel and redwood gate around it with a sturdy lock.
At this point, I'm not sure if I should hang up a spiritual stocking on the fireplace for "Santa's" present or call the police.
I mean, what the hell do you tell the cops? That someone in an SRF T-Shirt impersonating Santa is coming to deliver spiritual retribution?
Screw it. I'm hanging a stocking.
Either way, I'm glad I got out before my mind went the way as Rosebud Maid's. I probably know who that is, but as the list of people who's brains blew into micro-orbs is as long as the river is wide, the process of identifying this person would be a long one.
Anyway, I'm not putting a stop to my mission on account of Rosebud Maid.
WTF?
I remember being on Spirit Patrol late at night reading the incoming email. We seemed to get one or two of those kinds of crazy mails every night from similar SRF "supporters". If I were alone whern I read them, I'd need clean underwear. Luckily, the lights were on and there were a few others around.
Once in a while, someone like that would call on the main phone line. Just as creepy. Those kinds of email and phone calls were just one of the reasons SRF HQ has a tall steel and redwood gate around it with a sturdy lock.
At this point, I'm not sure if I should hang up a spiritual stocking on the fireplace for "Santa's" present or call the police.
I mean, what the hell do you tell the cops? That someone in an SRF T-Shirt impersonating Santa is coming to deliver spiritual retribution?
Screw it. I'm hanging a stocking.
Either way, I'm glad I got out before my mind went the way as Rosebud Maid's. I probably know who that is, but as the list of people who's brains blew into micro-orbs is as long as the river is wide, the process of identifying this person would be a long one.
Anyway, I'm not putting a stop to my mission on account of Rosebud Maid.
Well, you guys have a few things right i guess... but all in all- i'm sorry i wasted my time in posting anything. I'm glad you all think you know what's best and what truly set us on the "right" path.
That's the great thing about life. I'm fully within my right to think and do what i want, as are you. I'm not going out of my way to incriminate anyone, or attack anyone's character. I only hope you all decide to do the same.
God luck letting go of the past and moving on with your future.
Best to all of you.
That's the great thing about life. I'm fully within my right to think and do what i want, as are you. I'm not going out of my way to incriminate anyone, or attack anyone's character. I only hope you all decide to do the same.
God luck letting go of the past and moving on with your future.
Best to all of you.
Kshanti I do not claim to know what is best for you. There are so many variables in life, so many roads to choose. You are absolutely right you have the right to think whatever you want, to do what you feel is right, just as I do. If you think I am full of shit then that is your right and have at it.
In that same way I think what set you on the right path was due to a multitude of extraordinary innate qualities you possess and having many people around you that loved you including your mother; though I would be amiss to not say her decisions concerning you were misguided in my opinion. But you have heard that all before, long before I showed up.
I do know that you have always been an amazing girl and now a woman. I know all your friends and family back in Berkeley are so proud of you and your accomplishments and so are Mike and I. We have always cheered for you. It seems you may have gotten the wrong impression from something I did or said to make you feel like I don’t think you are doing well. I apologize if I said anything out of line concerning this but I was only reflecting on a dream and I certainly do not know anything about your life now (I don’t believe I ever wrote or said what you were doing now just what happened in the past and mainly what I witnessed).
I do see things differently from you and you may hate me for it or at least me expressing it. We may never see eye to eye.
I offer the public dissenting views just like many other former ministers of the Spiritual Rights Foundation have done for the last 8 years or so; God I can’t remember when the first newspaper article came out against the Spiritual Rights Foundation.
I wish you all the best and hope that life treats you kind. You are gifted and incredible; I will always remember you as such no matter what.
Joy
In that same way I think what set you on the right path was due to a multitude of extraordinary innate qualities you possess and having many people around you that loved you including your mother; though I would be amiss to not say her decisions concerning you were misguided in my opinion. But you have heard that all before, long before I showed up.
I do know that you have always been an amazing girl and now a woman. I know all your friends and family back in Berkeley are so proud of you and your accomplishments and so are Mike and I. We have always cheered for you. It seems you may have gotten the wrong impression from something I did or said to make you feel like I don’t think you are doing well. I apologize if I said anything out of line concerning this but I was only reflecting on a dream and I certainly do not know anything about your life now (I don’t believe I ever wrote or said what you were doing now just what happened in the past and mainly what I witnessed).
I do see things differently from you and you may hate me for it or at least me expressing it. We may never see eye to eye.
I offer the public dissenting views just like many other former ministers of the Spiritual Rights Foundation have done for the last 8 years or so; God I can’t remember when the first newspaper article came out against the Spiritual Rights Foundation.
I wish you all the best and hope that life treats you kind. You are gifted and incredible; I will always remember you as such no matter what.
Joy
Anonymous said...
I have a very soft spot for both Molly and Kshanti, as they were special people in my life. I see them as great people who have a wonderful spirit, articulate, well spoken. I also have to say that there mom, when you get her out of that environment is the same, so those of us who were taught to hate the sin not the sinner are doing so with this blog. We are hating the sin of the corrupt environment and those who choose to corrupt others with this body, mind and soul affliction of energies/propaganda!
Some of us seem to be piling on with those in charge these days, as well others who led SRF in the past. Lets all get a grip and just say that SRF is not for everyone and to be blunt, some are really so caught up with the notion that they are going to be saved by this church, that they miss the rest of the world going on around them that life is passing them by. The insulation you at first covet, settle into the lifestyle change, and then later resent, is our own choice/fault. Yeah we can blame others for our own actions, but seriously, how many of us want to be told what to do day after day, night after night, and year after year by people who say they aren't gurus? Yet, when we speak up, we are reprimanded and isolated for un SRF like beliefs and therefore are own beliefs are struck down as being out of our space...ungrounded....worst yet, stopped in using our minds and spiritual discernment for a case of the only say something good about SRF mantra.
We are told not to give up our seniority (certainty of who we are without compromise) and we do so because people like Bill Duby, Angela Silva and Robin DuMolin and Debi Livingston tell us to do so, when it comes to our own spiritual discernment and voice.
Kshanti and Molly were never clairvoyant training students, ministers and prone to the long hours of coercion masked in spiritual enlightenment training? They never had to work 40 to 50 work weeks, chastised for not getting to a 4 to 6 hour floor monitoring/house control shift, an all night spirit patrol shift/doing more propaganda work for the school and church through online advertising, mailings, cleansing of the energies and protecting the outside world from corrupting the inner sanctum of SRF and the walls of what R. Bill Duby started and the extended family continue to create.
Kshanti, you left to start your own life right after you graduated from school, Molly is pretty much doing the same. So to hear from both of you regarding everything else outside of rightfully protecting yourselves and your mom is misguided. Kshanti, work all day at the lodge and then get yelled at in staff meetings for being 10 minutes late for a meeting, pay a high percentage of your work wages to those who tear you down and don't appreciate your existence, if only to work you hard and spit you out with disdain as they sit back and laugh and talk about you behind your backs. Yet, chastised others for doing the same. Its called being a hypocrite! Angela, Robin and your mother Debi are masters at it!
Molly, go to school all day, cram for tests at night and then go do a house control shift and spirit patrol shift back to back and pay most of what your earn having to pay rent and food, not to mention college courses on the side job you had to get in order to cover your living expenses. Tell me after doing this for years you don't see the bullshit and the deception of being told its a non profit corporation and see the only profits are going to your mom, Angela, Robin and Bill when he was alive....
As a student studying journalism at an awarding winning school newspaper, try learning the real instincts of a real news reporter...become objective and do research! As the famous DEEP THROAT once said to Carl Bernstein of the Washington Post...FOLLOW THE MONEY!
Some of us seem to be piling on with those in charge these days, as well others who led SRF in the past. Lets all get a grip and just say that SRF is not for everyone and to be blunt, some are really so caught up with the notion that they are going to be saved by this church, that they miss the rest of the world going on around them that life is passing them by. The insulation you at first covet, settle into the lifestyle change, and then later resent, is our own choice/fault. Yeah we can blame others for our own actions, but seriously, how many of us want to be told what to do day after day, night after night, and year after year by people who say they aren't gurus? Yet, when we speak up, we are reprimanded and isolated for un SRF like beliefs and therefore are own beliefs are struck down as being out of our space...ungrounded....worst yet, stopped in using our minds and spiritual discernment for a case of the only say something good about SRF mantra.
We are told not to give up our seniority (certainty of who we are without compromise) and we do so because people like Bill Duby, Angela Silva and Robin DuMolin and Debi Livingston tell us to do so, when it comes to our own spiritual discernment and voice.
Kshanti and Molly were never clairvoyant training students, ministers and prone to the long hours of coercion masked in spiritual enlightenment training? They never had to work 40 to 50 work weeks, chastised for not getting to a 4 to 6 hour floor monitoring/house control shift, an all night spirit patrol shift/doing more propaganda work for the school and church through online advertising, mailings, cleansing of the energies and protecting the outside world from corrupting the inner sanctum of SRF and the walls of what R. Bill Duby started and the extended family continue to create.
Kshanti, you left to start your own life right after you graduated from school, Molly is pretty much doing the same. So to hear from both of you regarding everything else outside of rightfully protecting yourselves and your mom is misguided. Kshanti, work all day at the lodge and then get yelled at in staff meetings for being 10 minutes late for a meeting, pay a high percentage of your work wages to those who tear you down and don't appreciate your existence, if only to work you hard and spit you out with disdain as they sit back and laugh and talk about you behind your backs. Yet, chastised others for doing the same. Its called being a hypocrite! Angela, Robin and your mother Debi are masters at it!
Molly, go to school all day, cram for tests at night and then go do a house control shift and spirit patrol shift back to back and pay most of what your earn having to pay rent and food, not to mention college courses on the side job you had to get in order to cover your living expenses. Tell me after doing this for years you don't see the bullshit and the deception of being told its a non profit corporation and see the only profits are going to your mom, Angela, Robin and Bill when he was alive....
As a student studying journalism at an awarding winning school newspaper, try learning the real instincts of a real news reporter...become objective and do research! As the famous DEEP THROAT once said to Carl Bernstein of the Washington Post...FOLLOW THE MONEY!
Hello Joy,It is me, Rosebud. Wile I was running my energy and communing with the Supreme Being I saw a picture of a wite dove with blue all around it. Then swooch it jumped on a mail box and light abounded from dove God. I sat there say to me self what does this men Supreme Being. In great teaching of Reb. Bill Duby I put up rose, rose of christ to see. It came to me and u. Black covers blue on our commnunicattion line, foreign energy of great big mess of earthquake energy that wants to divide land between us and drop tree grounding cords betwen us. I commance wit healing bad energy. And lite again you smile at Rosebud and we join hands in healing circle of love and ligh . All is forgiven. I don tmen you harm but love and ligt. message tell me to speak with u and spread light to blog.
Rosebud Maid
Rosebud Maid
Anonymous from Jan 22. 8:17, thank you for your insights into the progression of comments here. It is so hard to address everything possible that needs to be said. So I really appreciate others perspectives; what other people are getting out of these comments. And every one who has commented has helped me reflect on my own thinking and experiences.
I appreciate what you had to say about Debi, I have seen a glimpse of her good side as well all though we never really hung out as friends because she was always in a position of power and authority as either my teacher, Director, House Control or Bishop. I certainly do not think she is an evil person but someone who as Bill said it best wanted to climb to the top and have power. She has been molded and manipulated by an evil man Rev. Bill Duby who saw both her potential and her weakness for approval and desires. Long ago she has crossed over the line of being a victim at the hands of Bill to now being a victimizer similar to him. It is unfortunate she and I had ever crossed Rev. Bill’s path. Now however, after working tirelessly to be in the position she is in she is carrying out Rev. Bill’s vision to the best of her ability and that I have a problem with. The works of Rev. Bill and his teacher Lewis Boswick have ruined countless people’s lives and families. And with the knowledge I have now I cannot stand idly by.
You have made many interesting points that I have been reflecting on for some time now. I have been reading a book off and on now named, The Lucifer Effect – Understanding how good people turn evil by Philip Zimbardo who is the social psychologist who designed the famous Stanford Jail experiment. He looked at how people could be changed by being in groups and how much control a group or an environment had on an individual. This is very interesting to me and I will write about it in more detail in later posts.
I do want to say that there have been a large amount of research that has shown the impact of groups, environments and authority figures have on individual’s actions, thoughts, perceptions and deeds including going against what they know to be right. Just look up Milgram’s research on Blind Obedience to Authority which you can find videos on it and new research based on it on youtube.
My niece is coming over to make some yummy homemade pizza with me so I have to go. I have much more to say about this, another time.
I appreciate what you had to say about Debi, I have seen a glimpse of her good side as well all though we never really hung out as friends because she was always in a position of power and authority as either my teacher, Director, House Control or Bishop. I certainly do not think she is an evil person but someone who as Bill said it best wanted to climb to the top and have power. She has been molded and manipulated by an evil man Rev. Bill Duby who saw both her potential and her weakness for approval and desires. Long ago she has crossed over the line of being a victim at the hands of Bill to now being a victimizer similar to him. It is unfortunate she and I had ever crossed Rev. Bill’s path. Now however, after working tirelessly to be in the position she is in she is carrying out Rev. Bill’s vision to the best of her ability and that I have a problem with. The works of Rev. Bill and his teacher Lewis Boswick have ruined countless people’s lives and families. And with the knowledge I have now I cannot stand idly by.
You have made many interesting points that I have been reflecting on for some time now. I have been reading a book off and on now named, The Lucifer Effect – Understanding how good people turn evil by Philip Zimbardo who is the social psychologist who designed the famous Stanford Jail experiment. He looked at how people could be changed by being in groups and how much control a group or an environment had on an individual. This is very interesting to me and I will write about it in more detail in later posts.
I do want to say that there have been a large amount of research that has shown the impact of groups, environments and authority figures have on individual’s actions, thoughts, perceptions and deeds including going against what they know to be right. Just look up Milgram’s research on Blind Obedience to Authority which you can find videos on it and new research based on it on youtube.
My niece is coming over to make some yummy homemade pizza with me so I have to go. I have much more to say about this, another time.
Ok Pesto sauce is made and pizza dough is rising.
I do want to address rosebudmaid’s comment; I see you are back again. I am, I think glad that you feel things at least in communication is healed between us but I don’t. At first I did not realize the severity of what you were saying at first until another commenter pointed out you were making threats and possibly dangerous. I had to pull all your comments off my blog and youtube because I did not feel it was appropriate. Now you are blocked on youtube but I cannot block individual people here, however I do reserve the right to delete comments as I see fit.
I advise you to be more careful what you say, do not make threats, do not attack as you have been, people are thinking you are a bit off your rocker by some of your comments. If you have something constructive to say then we would love to hear it, if you want to praise the Spiritual Rights Foundation and your teachers then do it. If that is your way of spreading the light then I have no problem with that.
But I repeat for anyone on this blog, no threats, no blackmail, no bullying and please stay on topic.
I would like this blog to be a forum of open opiniions and thoughts on peoples experiences in relation to their time spent at the Spritual Rights Foundation or simular organizations like the Berkeley Psychic Institute and Scientology.
Thanks you.
I do want to address rosebudmaid’s comment; I see you are back again. I am, I think glad that you feel things at least in communication is healed between us but I don’t. At first I did not realize the severity of what you were saying at first until another commenter pointed out you were making threats and possibly dangerous. I had to pull all your comments off my blog and youtube because I did not feel it was appropriate. Now you are blocked on youtube but I cannot block individual people here, however I do reserve the right to delete comments as I see fit.
I advise you to be more careful what you say, do not make threats, do not attack as you have been, people are thinking you are a bit off your rocker by some of your comments. If you have something constructive to say then we would love to hear it, if you want to praise the Spiritual Rights Foundation and your teachers then do it. If that is your way of spreading the light then I have no problem with that.
But I repeat for anyone on this blog, no threats, no blackmail, no bullying and please stay on topic.
I would like this blog to be a forum of open opiniions and thoughts on peoples experiences in relation to their time spent at the Spritual Rights Foundation or simular organizations like the Berkeley Psychic Institute and Scientology.
Thanks you.
Anonymous said...
follow the money is a good saying and fits for SRF
It's done. It's over.
Now, let's leave those two alone.
If they comment again, let's just let them speak their piece and we will go on with our own discussion.
It will probably be written a lot better than their first attempt anyway and I for one, am looking forward to hearing it.
Now, let's leave those two alone.
If they comment again, let's just let them speak their piece and we will go on with our own discussion.
It will probably be written a lot better than their first attempt anyway and I for one, am looking forward to hearing it.
Molly Rose Livingston said...
Whoa, looks like I’m pissing someone off. Hit a nerve, did I?
My status on this blog went from being the poor victim of forced child labor and abuse, to a bitch and whore. I guess you guys don’t like it when people point out the flaws in your concocted stories.
On the note of this blog being one big ridiculous invasion of my life, I’d like to request that you leave out Harpreet too. I realize in all you peoples renditions of the past, he is cast as a helpless victim. Which makes sense, because you’re all friends and its much more fun to tell fairy tales about big bad Bill ruining everything.
But bringing him into this is unfair to him, and to our relationship. It only adds stress to our relationship. I can absolutely guarantee that none of you know the full story behind everything that happened between us, and you sound naïve pretending you do. I don’t need anyone to tell me to give him a fathers day card, or that I should thank him for my ‘freedom.’
My dad and I agree on this so if you can’t show me the respect (since many of you perceive me as a evil bitch), at least show it to your friend, Harpreet.
Thanks for looking out for me Mike, Laying low was never my style, but I appreciate the concern. I can take the fierce comments. They’re entertaining, but kind of a let down. I would enjoy being dragged over hot coals so much more if I at least knew who it was the feels such hatred towards me.
As for my writing style, I am sorry if it comes off too sarcastic for your taste. I’m trying to tone it down. (No joke, my mom, dad and even my boyfriend tell me I need too.)
Hopefully you remember that I’m a very sarcastic person, and when it comes to responding to the ridiculous stuff I see on here I guess that tone comes out a bit too strong.
I do disagree with you on my writing skills. I feel I come across clearly enough.
You said I am unfocused, unorganized and sophomoric. I don’t think so.
If I may quote your wife “But like, Its like, you know, ummm, it obviously shows... ummm, you know, ummm, yeah. I don’t know. It shows a lot. Yeah. So, anyways. . .”
If I am unfocused, unorganized and sophomoric, then surely we can categorize Joy’s communication skills as infantile?
(That’s a real quote. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxy3atB5_3Q. . . I realize you may suffer a boredom induced coma from trying to watch the entire video, so just go to 8:22)
As for how I would like to be remembered by the writers and commenters of this blog, that’s not something I am really concerned about. I highly doubt there is anything I can say that will change your perceptions of me.
I’m not fooling myself into thinking that anything I have written on here will change your guys’ mind. Don’t worry, I know I am wasting my time. It hardly matters if I come off eloquent or a mess, either way it will be twisted to suit how you all choose to view me.
Anyways, this little Internet exchange is hardly entertaining for me. I post with my name, and willingly take the online beatings that inevitably follow. Yet all of you who are so quick to throw me under the bus post your thoughts anonymously. BORING.
As I said before, I have nothing to hide or be ashamed of. You all apparently do.
Then again, if I where a adult posting trash like: “If you girls were stone cold drunk, I wouldn't even want to take advantage of you. Wouldn't want to soil myself on such piece of trash. I might catch something.” or “LETS TURN UP THE HEAT AND SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES TO MELT THESE BARBIE DOLLS!”
I guess I would have something to be ashamed about. Have fun hiding.
My status on this blog went from being the poor victim of forced child labor and abuse, to a bitch and whore. I guess you guys don’t like it when people point out the flaws in your concocted stories.
On the note of this blog being one big ridiculous invasion of my life, I’d like to request that you leave out Harpreet too. I realize in all you peoples renditions of the past, he is cast as a helpless victim. Which makes sense, because you’re all friends and its much more fun to tell fairy tales about big bad Bill ruining everything.
But bringing him into this is unfair to him, and to our relationship. It only adds stress to our relationship. I can absolutely guarantee that none of you know the full story behind everything that happened between us, and you sound naïve pretending you do. I don’t need anyone to tell me to give him a fathers day card, or that I should thank him for my ‘freedom.’
My dad and I agree on this so if you can’t show me the respect (since many of you perceive me as a evil bitch), at least show it to your friend, Harpreet.
Thanks for looking out for me Mike, Laying low was never my style, but I appreciate the concern. I can take the fierce comments. They’re entertaining, but kind of a let down. I would enjoy being dragged over hot coals so much more if I at least knew who it was the feels such hatred towards me.
As for my writing style, I am sorry if it comes off too sarcastic for your taste. I’m trying to tone it down. (No joke, my mom, dad and even my boyfriend tell me I need too.)
Hopefully you remember that I’m a very sarcastic person, and when it comes to responding to the ridiculous stuff I see on here I guess that tone comes out a bit too strong.
I do disagree with you on my writing skills. I feel I come across clearly enough.
You said I am unfocused, unorganized and sophomoric. I don’t think so.
If I may quote your wife “But like, Its like, you know, ummm, it obviously shows... ummm, you know, ummm, yeah. I don’t know. It shows a lot. Yeah. So, anyways. . .”
If I am unfocused, unorganized and sophomoric, then surely we can categorize Joy’s communication skills as infantile?
(That’s a real quote. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxy3atB5_3Q. . . I realize you may suffer a boredom induced coma from trying to watch the entire video, so just go to 8:22)
As for how I would like to be remembered by the writers and commenters of this blog, that’s not something I am really concerned about. I highly doubt there is anything I can say that will change your perceptions of me.
I’m not fooling myself into thinking that anything I have written on here will change your guys’ mind. Don’t worry, I know I am wasting my time. It hardly matters if I come off eloquent or a mess, either way it will be twisted to suit how you all choose to view me.
Anyways, this little Internet exchange is hardly entertaining for me. I post with my name, and willingly take the online beatings that inevitably follow. Yet all of you who are so quick to throw me under the bus post your thoughts anonymously. BORING.
As I said before, I have nothing to hide or be ashamed of. You all apparently do.
Then again, if I where a adult posting trash like: “If you girls were stone cold drunk, I wouldn't even want to take advantage of you. Wouldn't want to soil myself on such piece of trash. I might catch something.” or “LETS TURN UP THE HEAT AND SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES TO MELT THESE BARBIE DOLLS!”
I guess I would have something to be ashamed about. Have fun hiding.
Anonymous said...
Hey Molly,
Glad you are now a contributing member to this blog. Unfortunately you are just asking to be flamed by others who are looking for more ammo!
The post SRF emotions are real, and yes we probably need to get a life for sure! But hey, Mike and Joy have this place to vent and tell what they experienced just like you and Kshanti do. You were kids and were spared much of the abuse by the elite top tier. Your mother...I repeat your mother was only a soldier told what to do by your godmother, mothers best friend and your godfather.
Your eyes as a child were filled with playing, role playing and watching television. Yeah I know, you think we didn't notice you noticing us. We did. That is when you would be asked to go out and play somewhere else. Heck, don't you remember Bill screaming at us late into the night, and the hushed tones of him keeping us up all night? Don't you remember woman crying and the body expressions of the men that had us very uptight and stressed?
As a reporter, you are supposed to be objective and neutral. You can't possibly know the bullshit we endured over the years.
IT IS ALL OUR OWN FAULT! I GET IT! Why are we complaining now right? Well, sometimes there is a thing called post traumatic stress disorder that people get, most notably soldiers coming home from wars.
I was just glad my experience was over with and I could get away from that environment.
You were shielded from much of what went on, though I don't doubt you saw much of what went on. It's just that your mind wasn't always occupied with all the stress that we had to endure. We were proud spiritual warriors and thought we were going to make a difference with those who weren't enlighten like us at SRF.
When new people came in we were only to proud to introduce them to our teaching. We were filled up with a false belief that we were different and somehow we could make a difference in there lives. We were wrong. We only helped them get worse and get broke.
As a reporter Molly, don't you ask for just the facts? No one ever got wealthy at SRF, except for maybe David and his winnings from the lottery. Yet, he gave up much of it from the standpoint of donations over the next few years. I'm sure he wished he hadn't given up all that money now.
The rest of the group could only rely on the handouts of the seldom generosity of the church when they had no work coming in. I also saw Angela, Robin try to evict people from SRF properties when they couldn't come up with money to pay rent or pay for the constant classes they were required to take.
We were promised a retirement place, but it looks like that was a major lie! Your welcome as long as you don't run out of money.
You are off to college and away from the craziness the last 5 years or so, as well as your sister. Why didn't both of you stick around and join the year class? Why did both of you have the need to get away from Berkeley right after you graduated from school? You had enough as well...You saw that us crazy adults were stupid for chasing a pipe dream! You saw that the future wasn't being a drone for the upper SRF elite. Can you imagine having your journalism teacher(s) continually have you answer there phones, do there bidding, clean up there houses, do remodeling of there houses, fix up there backyards, and continually send flyers out telling the community through the media how great it is to not get paid for it for years?
IT IS OUR OWN DAMN FAULT! We are only now just getting the anger and stress out, but we are still connected to some of those who are still there, and we do this with mixed emotions. Still, I believe we are still a little bit conflicted by this, as we believe somehow we can help those who are still there and conflicted themselves. We are doing this anonymously because other than Mike and Joy, we still have a connection to many of those still there. Slowly, they will get tired and look for a reason to leave as well. They can look for us to help them make the transition to a post SRF life. Isn't what your doing Molly? Your using school to separate you from everyone at SRF and start your life as a graduate/job seeker/wife/mother and builder of a prosperous life? We did that years ago, but we heard about some spiritual place that was magical, we bit and got hooked, just like the smoker who starts up with friends. We are fighting against our former loves, only this is the environment that corrupts peoples souls and lives.
Try doing an expose about a place similar and without the personal involvement and you would be all over it as a journalist. You can't with SRF because you grew up and have blinders with those you grew up knowing.
Anonymous may some day come up to you and reintroduce themselves to you and say hello. You may give us the finger, or after years of hearing people getting taken advantage of and captured want to give us a gentle I know what your going through hug and tell us you understand now. I have no ill will towards people, only the evil that dwells in them The House Where Evil Dwells for years was a movie that Angela Silva would show us about spirits. She should take that to heart and realize she is a product of the same environment. Personally, I think the place should be burned down, or gutted and start anew.
Glad you are now a contributing member to this blog. Unfortunately you are just asking to be flamed by others who are looking for more ammo!
The post SRF emotions are real, and yes we probably need to get a life for sure! But hey, Mike and Joy have this place to vent and tell what they experienced just like you and Kshanti do. You were kids and were spared much of the abuse by the elite top tier. Your mother...I repeat your mother was only a soldier told what to do by your godmother, mothers best friend and your godfather.
Your eyes as a child were filled with playing, role playing and watching television. Yeah I know, you think we didn't notice you noticing us. We did. That is when you would be asked to go out and play somewhere else. Heck, don't you remember Bill screaming at us late into the night, and the hushed tones of him keeping us up all night? Don't you remember woman crying and the body expressions of the men that had us very uptight and stressed?
As a reporter, you are supposed to be objective and neutral. You can't possibly know the bullshit we endured over the years.
IT IS ALL OUR OWN FAULT! I GET IT! Why are we complaining now right? Well, sometimes there is a thing called post traumatic stress disorder that people get, most notably soldiers coming home from wars.
I was just glad my experience was over with and I could get away from that environment.
You were shielded from much of what went on, though I don't doubt you saw much of what went on. It's just that your mind wasn't always occupied with all the stress that we had to endure. We were proud spiritual warriors and thought we were going to make a difference with those who weren't enlighten like us at SRF.
When new people came in we were only to proud to introduce them to our teaching. We were filled up with a false belief that we were different and somehow we could make a difference in there lives. We were wrong. We only helped them get worse and get broke.
As a reporter Molly, don't you ask for just the facts? No one ever got wealthy at SRF, except for maybe David and his winnings from the lottery. Yet, he gave up much of it from the standpoint of donations over the next few years. I'm sure he wished he hadn't given up all that money now.
The rest of the group could only rely on the handouts of the seldom generosity of the church when they had no work coming in. I also saw Angela, Robin try to evict people from SRF properties when they couldn't come up with money to pay rent or pay for the constant classes they were required to take.
We were promised a retirement place, but it looks like that was a major lie! Your welcome as long as you don't run out of money.
You are off to college and away from the craziness the last 5 years or so, as well as your sister. Why didn't both of you stick around and join the year class? Why did both of you have the need to get away from Berkeley right after you graduated from school? You had enough as well...You saw that us crazy adults were stupid for chasing a pipe dream! You saw that the future wasn't being a drone for the upper SRF elite. Can you imagine having your journalism teacher(s) continually have you answer there phones, do there bidding, clean up there houses, do remodeling of there houses, fix up there backyards, and continually send flyers out telling the community through the media how great it is to not get paid for it for years?
IT IS OUR OWN DAMN FAULT! We are only now just getting the anger and stress out, but we are still connected to some of those who are still there, and we do this with mixed emotions. Still, I believe we are still a little bit conflicted by this, as we believe somehow we can help those who are still there and conflicted themselves. We are doing this anonymously because other than Mike and Joy, we still have a connection to many of those still there. Slowly, they will get tired and look for a reason to leave as well. They can look for us to help them make the transition to a post SRF life. Isn't what your doing Molly? Your using school to separate you from everyone at SRF and start your life as a graduate/job seeker/wife/mother and builder of a prosperous life? We did that years ago, but we heard about some spiritual place that was magical, we bit and got hooked, just like the smoker who starts up with friends. We are fighting against our former loves, only this is the environment that corrupts peoples souls and lives.
Try doing an expose about a place similar and without the personal involvement and you would be all over it as a journalist. You can't with SRF because you grew up and have blinders with those you grew up knowing.
Anonymous may some day come up to you and reintroduce themselves to you and say hello. You may give us the finger, or after years of hearing people getting taken advantage of and captured want to give us a gentle I know what your going through hug and tell us you understand now. I have no ill will towards people, only the evil that dwells in them The House Where Evil Dwells for years was a movie that Angela Silva would show us about spirits. She should take that to heart and realize she is a product of the same environment. Personally, I think the place should be burned down, or gutted and start anew.
Yeah mollyrose is back. God bless her and her mother Bishop who i hold so dear and there father Rev. Bill who preaches truth and light throgh Bishop Deb.
Ummm ahhh ummmm yeah Molly you spanked Joy good.Infantile maloney he he he
Molly and I spread lightt and love to blog of truth and rightousnes.
Spritual Rights Foundation lives on through us greet followers of Rev. Bill Duby adn devoted wife Rev.Angela.
Praise the rightousness of those who are still devoted to the way of sprit and truth.
I pray like the eagle who sores in and out of coincousness that Joy regains her information of teaching and coems back to the fold of devoted followers and joins hands with Bishop Deb and devoted wifes Rev. Angela. they will take you back if you repent and give yourself back to service of Rev. Bill. I pray for you to leave thats husband of yours who spreads lies of Rev. Bill and all devotees and who has stole your mind and light.
It is not to late for ny of you. healings nad love await you in the sanctaty of Bishop Deb and devoted wife angelas presence.
I contine to give healing of pleanty to Joy for there is hope to get at you. Remembe r not so long go you devote too.
Blosing may light spread through blog and heal the inflicted of lies and wrong doings. Yeah
Ummm ahhh ummmm yeah Molly you spanked Joy good.Infantile maloney he he he
Molly and I spread lightt and love to blog of truth and rightousnes.
Spritual Rights Foundation lives on through us greet followers of Rev. Bill Duby adn devoted wife Rev.Angela.
Praise the rightousness of those who are still devoted to the way of sprit and truth.
I pray like the eagle who sores in and out of coincousness that Joy regains her information of teaching and coems back to the fold of devoted followers and joins hands with Bishop Deb and devoted wifes Rev. Angela. they will take you back if you repent and give yourself back to service of Rev. Bill. I pray for you to leave thats husband of yours who spreads lies of Rev. Bill and all devotees and who has stole your mind and light.
It is not to late for ny of you. healings nad love await you in the sanctaty of Bishop Deb and devoted wife angelas presence.
I contine to give healing of pleanty to Joy for there is hope to get at you. Remembe r not so long go you devote too.
Blosing may light spread through blog and heal the inflicted of lies and wrong doings. Yeah
Anonymous said...
Rev. Bill deserves the heat when he was alive and now after his death. He was a sick individual who abused the staff and those in charge now. He deserves spite and exposure for his control tactics. His vision is to make everyone uncomfortable and stressed out. His spiritual exercises only gave the person a temporary relief, and then he would start up on some other rant. The things thrown against the wall and floors illustrated someone who wouldn't hesitate to resort to violence. The physical fights he said he would resort to unless they relented to his control of there woman was legendary!
I just wish when he reviews his life that God has the same mercy that he had on us when he was alive. Great legacy to leave your wife and kid with.
I just wish when he reviews his life that God has the same mercy that he had on us when he was alive. Great legacy to leave your wife and kid with.
jill said...
who ever said those really mean things to kshanti and molly in the anonymous post using that foul language is seriously deranged
Anonymous said...
What Molly & Kshanti should feel is GUILT for living off the largess provided by the slave labor of the cult members. Molly & Kshanti, your hostility seems to mask GUILT. You're like good little Nazis, oblivious to the suffering going on in the camp nearby.
Anonymous said...
Maybe Molly and Kshanti left due to their "new" dad - Dan Boushey. I am sure they know why he only has supervised visitation with his own daughter.
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